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Post by Mark Neal on Apr 21, 2015 21:29:21 GMT
It does seem there is still a split in opinion on wether we should be in South/North next season. For me we have had 3 great seasons in the North in general but the time is right for us to finally head South, with how promotions/relegations are going currently.
Prem Relegated- Telford (further north), Dartford (further south), Nuneaton (further north), then 1 more place... The final relegation place to be decided by Alfreton (Further North) & Welling (Further South) going into this weekend, Alfreton in the relegation zone and face Rovers saturday.
Southern Prem- Poole (Further South) are above Corby (Further North) going into the last game on goal difference, they play each other Saturday for winner takes all.
Ryman Prem( Maidstone up as champions so they will be in Conf South).
Northern Prem (FC United, formed by MUFC supporters in 2005 are up into Conf North.
As speaking with Padz/Mark H on twitter some great weekend trips if we go in the South (Whitehawk,Eastbourne, even Weston?), local(er) games against Hemel/Maidenhead/Wealdstone/Bath/Basingstoke also. Plus much easier to get to all the games further South..
The alternative is the staying in the North, some great ex league clubs with good support still, along with Telford.Nuneaton coming back into the division and with the good fancies of FC Utd a decent away day.
For me, i want Conference South, but if we stay in Conference north is some crumbs of comfort for sure.
Conny South hunters will be wanting ST Neots/Redditch up from the Southern Prem play offs and be a fan of Corby on Saturday and Welling to win!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2015 11:00:50 GMT
Although I have voted south, it will all depend on others, I do not agree that we should be behind Lowestoft on southern preference, as we have been in the North for 3 seasons now and should get first preference.
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Post by nptonexile on Apr 22, 2015 17:46:49 GMT
North clearly bigger, more attractive (if not better) clubs. However, having been there for a few seasons, with trips to Stockport, Altrincham, Guiseley etc, the South would be a welcome and convenient change. However (part deux!) with additions of FCUM and to a lesser extent Nuneaton...defo the North again for me please!
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Post by hedges on Apr 22, 2015 20:15:47 GMT
No secret that Ive always wanted the south, living 20 miles closer to London many South clubs are within Range for us. But next season the North is going to be a hell of a league as NptonExile says and I feel we need to play the best this tier of football offers, especially if we have ambitions of going up and that means playing in the North.
Maybe it says something that apart from ourselves all the most 'southern' sides in the northern have struggled with Leamington and maybe Brackley going down we're soon going to be known as the annoying southern out post as Gloucester as it stands will be our nearest away day, and for me at least that not exactly close.
The other factor is, again with losing leamy and to a lesser extend Brackley our gates if this year is to go by will be shocking again. With the normal suspects and FCUM brinign a decent away following for those particular games we will still average <300 which isn't good for a team with eyes on going up, in my opinion, at least that should rise slightly in the South, one would have thought as larger away crowds making the trip!
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Post by Padz on Apr 23, 2015 10:21:15 GMT
The problem is, the club or supporters of the club have got to be entirely realistic with our ambitions, we are simply not well enough supported to be a Conference National club, it could actually be detrimental to the long term future of the club to get into the Conference National.
Lets look at the facts, we average 300 people for a home game, which is absolutely crap at the level we are now at, there are Southern Premier clubs attracting more people, the club is not pro-active in bringing in additional supporters and we seem to have attitude that if we were to get promoted another 300/400 people would suddenly come through the gate, which in my opinion just wont happen.
The club needs to attract supporters rather than expecting new supporters to find the club, it won't happen, never has done.
To be able to compete in the Conference National you need crowds of at least 650/700, and thats at the very least, the club has done absolutely fantastic this season, when you look at the crowd size we are 3rd/4th from the bottom.
Conference National, the need to bring in better players, better players = larger wage.
And talk of the club putting down a 3G pitch which lets say will cost between £400,000-£600,000, it's been quoted that the club is funding this, which is can't be without borrowing/paying in installments.
Clubs as small as us have ended up in the Conference National in the past, Histon a prime example but even that was due to financial backing, something that we haven't got, but more often than not it ends in tears with a club going through the trapdoor of divisions on a yearly basis.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 12:18:13 GMT
The problem is, the club or supporters of the club have got to be entirely realistic with our ambitions, we are simply not well enough supported to be a Conference National club, it could actually be detrimental to the long term future of the club to get into the Conference National. Lets look at the facts, we average 300 people for a home game, which is absolutely crap at the level we are now at, there are Southern Premier clubs attracting more people, the club is not pro-active in bringing in additional supporters and we seem to have attitude that if we were to get promoted another 300/400 people would suddenly come through the gate, which in my opinion just wont happen. The club needs to attract supporters rather than expecting new supporters to find the club, it won't happen, never has done. To be able to compete in the Conference National you need crowds of at least 650/700, and thats at the very least, the club has done absolutely fantastic this season, when you look at the crowd size we are 3rd/4th from the bottom. Conference National, the need to bring in better players, better players = larger wage. And talk of the club putting down a 3G pitch which lets say will cost between £400,000-£600,000, it's been quoted that the club is funding this, which is can't be without borrowing/paying in installments. Clubs as small as us have ended up in the Conference National in the past, Histon a prime example but even that was due to financial backing, something that we haven't got, but more often than not it ends in tears with a club going through the trapdoor of divisions on a yearly basis. I will address your points backwards, as I am awkward Yes don't forget Fleetwood who boasted under 200 before the man with the money moved his office to their ground. Would like to know how much Mr G has actually put in ? What is he going to invest other than hot air? Not that difficult just an estimate would do. I think I have said somewhere this 3G pitch 'packadge' as reported in the OM, may have as you put it, a loan attached to it at great risk to the club. I would love a statement from the club saying it is a cash payment or even instalments based on revenue from the facilities income, but we don't get any costing plan, just told packadge. The club also aknowledged we don't get enough fans to progress to the Football League at the moment so we have to rely on 'other revenues'. I think from what Justin is saying, he is targeting better players. Again as the budget does not seem effected by the new pitch, puzzeling to say the least! Agree with the crowd size It hasn't changed much since the late whitehouse days. In my opinion, we all try very hard to get others to come Brookes have been fantastic, and may more follow from other clubs, we should welcome all. But your right the club as Hedges has said need to do more locally, not international clap trap, I can't see anyone jetting in from Texas for the Guiseley game. Finally you cannot blame the club for being ambitious, for without ambitions you might as well give up. But agree we have to be realistic and know where the money is coming from, fans deserve to know, not just a ' don't worry its all in hand' ' packadge,' himself has put a few dollars in etc, etc. You could argue,that we are not well enough supported to be a conference club at all. Brings me to another point how much has the last 3 seasons cost, are we solvent. will we be running at a loss, are we running at a loss. I could go on but I won't I've said my bit.
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Post by hedges on Apr 23, 2015 13:13:42 GMT
Im pretty convinced we shouldn't be too worried about the 'package' and the G3.
Yes its a massive amount of money for us, but lets look at facts. I have never been to a game where the G3 is not in, or about to be used. The club have said they have a waiting list for people to use it simply because they cannot provide enough slots to match the demand....thus we get a second pitch the problem is solved....The fact the yellow lot and Reading send teams down to train on it says alot about the quality of our set-up in my opinion. It also means the club doesn't have to wait for customers...as soon as the pitch is down it will start paying back its debts.
Question marks on the financing yes, also we don't know how much money is being made, but given the above fact its almost always in use (as ive seen it) and ive heard a rumor it makes up to 200K per year....thus having already paid of debts from the community arena build there is no reason to suggest the club doesn't have some money backed up for projects like a second G3....or even the Indoor arena...which as you saw from my thread below certainly exists and certainly has the potential to bring in a significant 3rds money stream.
Why does this loan, which the club would almost certainly need, have to be dodgy? because it potentially involves TAG? what on earth is wrong with banks and regular financial routes...Interest rates are nothing at the moment and don't look like rising anytime soon so if you need to borrow money now is as good a time as any (especially if the project is reasonably safe, as a second G3 would be, pay itself off in 2-3 years)
I stand by my initial reaction to all this. Even though we would all like to wave good bye to TAG for good. I believe TAG is being used by us as much as he is attempting to use us. I do not believe the people in charge of our club are stupid enough to undo or put at risk all the hard work they have done over the last two decades for a flash in the pan success.
I do however agree with the issue of fans and certainly feel the club need to do more to draw better support.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 13:38:43 GMT
I really do hope all you are saying Hedges is correct! I did not go to the last game at Gainsborough without faith that if by some chance we managed to keep a playoff chance alive we would be able financially to cope if we were successful and made the second promotion place.
I didn't say dodgy. No loan is risk free, you have based a lot of what you say on rumor, I do hope this is Fact. Padz may know different, I do not know. A bit more transparency from the club to wether what your saying is indeed true would put a lot more fans minds at rest.
One question is Thomas entitled to any of this revenue from said facilities?
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Post by DavidJ on Apr 23, 2015 15:15:17 GMT
I don't go to anywhere near as many games as the rest of you, so my opinion is not exactly as important as those of you who do. However, to me the clubs in the north are far more interesting as opponents and much more likely to get me to attend on an irregular basis - for example, the game(s) against FC United would go straight in the diary and only a handful of my league team's potential fixtures would stop me going. I realise this is entiretly subjective.
As for promotion, I agree that we are too small in terms of fanbase for the league above. Sometimes I wonder how we finance a team in this league (I just hope it is not down to promises from TAG). However, if you get the chance for promotion you have to go for it, otherwise what is the point? However, if we did go up it would be important to set a sustainable budget and try and live within that rather then get into massive debt trying to avoid relegation. The latter would more than likely lead to a subsequent relegation from conference north/south the following season.
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Post by hedges on Apr 23, 2015 18:17:05 GMT
The only thing I said which is speculation is how much money the G3 is bringing in and I don't believe your going to get a straight answer anyway on that...though maybe someone should ask, since I haven't asked that question yet, you never know! The rest is as Ive witnessed so can be seen as facts. The G3 is constantly in use when Ive been at the club...weather Saturday afternoon or Tuesday/Wednesday/Monday night, there is always people using it. Interest rates are low and thus work both ways though no loan is risk free, its not like we are using it to build a new (permanent) stand with the hope of going up and making some incorrect calculation on the relative increase in supporters to pay for it....this would spell disaster....we are using it to build something that is nigh on guaranteed to start making a turn over as soon as its complete, therefore any risk dramatically falls away....as long as TAG isn't involved obviously! Ill be honest, one reason I went to see the Indoor arena for myself wasn't just a curiosity over the Fusal...or the fact that allegedly two of the best teams in the country were going toe to toe meaning the quality should be quite good and entertaining. Part of me wanted to put to bed any doubt that this place exists and is 'ours'. but one of the big halls was renovated in blue and white and the club logo stood proud in the glass above the entrance door.....this therefore isn't just a regular sports hall that we use. TAG first mooted the indoor arena it was considered BS...the Futsal team then played at Wheatley which is fair enough...then last year I think TAG mentioned a place in oxford....which Padz pulled up as BS and it seems to have been exactly that as I did some goggling myself and found nothing on it. I then heard about Berinsfield and there has been some promotion by the club and others about it locally, Colin spoke to me and dad at length about it (along with other matters) after the Tamworth game (I think you had already left after that dodgy Pink Champagne had gone to your head OWH ) ...but last Sunday, no work so had a free weekend I went down there to see it for myself and put any of these doubts to bed. My feeling is as it stands, that apart from TAGS amazing track record in the US (note the sarcasm)....there is nothing obviously negative, the development and youth teams are doing well, the 1st team has done superb and is playing some of the best football ive seen in my 5 or 6 seasons watching and the club are fulfilling their promises....note I said the clubs promises...not TAGs promises! Until there is any real negativity off the field that i can see with my own eyes thats when ill start getting worried....thats certainly not right now. Just a suggestion maybe the club could do a QnA type thing once a year (much like alot of clubs at that level have AGMS) where the fans can throw questions at those in charge...obviously they know what the first 5 questions will be...but as rightly said would put the doubts of other supporters to bed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 19:23:07 GMT
Some very good info there Hedges, thanks! A great season on the pitch very entertaining and nearly to the wire! hedges quote: after the Tamworth game (I think you had already left after that dodgy Pink Champagne had gone to your head OWH ): unquote It was my birthday, we had yet another goalie sent off, I think I growled at Colin then got a taxi home Hedges quote: Just a suggestion maybe the club could do a QnA type thing once a year (much like alot of clubs at that level have AGMS) where the fans can throw questions at those in charge...obviously they know what the first 5 questions will be...but as rightly said would put the doubts of other supporters to bed. unquote: What an excellent Idea!
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Post by huxman on Apr 24, 2015 7:36:07 GMT
Nothing much to add to all that but I don't think going up would be an automatic disaster. I agree with DavidJ that if if money managed properly and no extravagance it would not be the end of the world if we went straight back down. Playing in the National Premier must surely raise our profile even if for only one season. Which brings me to Padz point about promotion in the marketing sense. I am still amazed that there is no massive banner on Marsh Lane saying "Home of Oxford City Football Club: National North" or something perhaps a little more catchy or is this a OC Council issue? How many cars pass there every day? I constantly encounter football fans in Oxford who don't even know we exist. "Oh, do you mean Oxford United?", "No I *&%$$$xg don't!" . See you all tomorrow for my last Saturday home game Might still get to a few midweekers until Christmas.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 17:27:25 GMT
I am still amazed that there is no massive banner on Marsh Lane saying "Home of Oxford City Football Club: National North" or something perhaps a little more catchy or is this a OC Council issue? How many cars pass there every day? I constantly encounter football fans in Oxford who don't even know we exist. "Oh, do you mean Oxford United?", "No I *&%$$$xg don't!" . See you all tomorrow for my last Saturday home game Might still get to a few midweekers until Christmas. I think the problem is the entraince to the carpark and rec being council owned has restrictions on what you can and can't put as a sign. The ground is blocked off from view, being at the end of a long road and surrounded by trees and fencing. yes most other grounds has a huge sign at their entrance or attached to the back of a stand like Telford. with 'Welcome to whatever club name, followed by Proud members of the Vanarama Conference north'.
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Post by huxman on Apr 25, 2015 7:05:21 GMT
Thought it was probably a Council issue. Is it negotiable I wonder? Are there any other landowners nearby that might allow a sign for a reasonable fee? Probably been looked into before I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 7:28:42 GMT
If I had my way there would be signs going back to the other side of Oxford saying Oxford city football club this way follow the signs. Just like United have, They don't have a problem? Then when you came to the approach by the roundabout, a huge sign would Say 'Welcome To Marsh Lane, the home of Oxford City Football Club Proud members of what ever league we are in. I would also have a Massive sign facing both ways on the entrance to the rec, saying the same thing with an arrow where to go, but I don't have my way and have no idea about council policy or highways etc. But is it not about time we dropped the court place farm, it sounds like we are selling eggs and you try and get a Taxi giving that as your destination, the driver scratches his head. I know its been a problem for away fans too, until they say Marsh Lane Marston, Chester fans were taken to the Kassam! Oh and lets not call it Oxford Stadium, unless it is officially renamed, in which case 'The New Whitehouse ground' will do nicely
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 25, 2015 8:37:11 GMT
But is it not about time we dropped the court place farm, it sounds like we are selling eggs and you try and get a Taxi giving that as your destination, the driver scratches his head. I know its been a problem for away fans too, until they say Marsh Lane Marston, Chester fans were taken to the Kassam! Oh and lets not call it Oxford Stadium, unless it is officially renamed, in which case 'The New Whitehouse ground' will do nicely I think it's officially been 'Marsh Lane' rather than 'Court Place Farm' since round about the start of this season...though it'll take the OM a few years to catch up with that one probably .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 11:12:03 GMT
But is it not about time we dropped the court place farm, it sounds like we are selling eggs and you try and get a Taxi giving that as your destination, the driver scratches his head. I know its been a problem for away fans too, until they say Marsh Lane Marston, Chester fans were taken to the Kassam! Oh and lets not call it Oxford Stadium, unless it is officially renamed, in which case 'The New Whitehouse ground' will do nicely I think it's officially been 'Marsh Lane' rather than 'Court Place Farm' since round about the start of this season...though it'll take the OM a few years to catch up with that one probably . Great excuse when the new surface is put down, to have an offical renaming of the ground with former officials/Players maybe even Arry so OX Mail Rad-Ox-utd, get message accross, could even have an open day,and a money making pre season game against a big club, just an idea
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 25, 2015 18:27:49 GMT
So, there we go... Alfreton, Telford, Nuneaton (all north of Oxford) down from Conference National and Corby (north of Oxford) up from the Southern League. It would surely seem likely that City should be 'South' next season, wouldn't it?
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Post by Padz on Apr 25, 2015 20:21:21 GMT
Everything crossed!
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Post by Mark Neal on Apr 25, 2015 20:23:11 GMT
There are a few rumours that the club may have asked to stay in North. Hopefully we move South.
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Post by Rijs on Apr 25, 2015 20:32:08 GMT
South might be easier to do well in? I ge tthe feeling the bigger clubs make the North more competitive at the moment. Just look at the atteendances today: the North averaging over 1,000 despite our low gate, the South several hundred fewer.
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Post by hedges on Apr 26, 2015 4:48:03 GMT
Not feeling quite so bad about the north now as Brackley have stayed up....got at least one local away game!
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Post by Mark Neal on Apr 28, 2015 20:51:46 GMT
Truro vs St Neots play off final it is after both won tonight at Hungerford and Poole respectively. Come on St Neots!
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Post by Padz on Apr 28, 2015 22:03:51 GMT
And in the Northern Prem its Curzon Ashton v Ilkeston
Workington lost at home, so should we find ourselves North that's one saving grace.
Come on St Neots!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2015 7:10:20 GMT
There are a few rumours that the club may have asked to stay in North. Hopefully we move South. If true this is very annoying. There are rules for a reason. Rule 5. takes care of this, although 'geographically appropriate' can mean a lot of things and if they had put 'the Most southern' over the past few years then, after the playoffs everyone would know straight away where they were going. The only circumstance I can see when clubs need approaching is when a club goes bust over the closed season period, even then its tough, but still in my opinion the most southerly should go south. Not with good road links or nice airport, get the rules changed or amended if the majority of clubs want this nonsense!
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Post by Padz on Apr 30, 2015 11:33:55 GMT
If the club has got any sense they'll have asked to be considered to move South, even if purely for the fact of attracting a few more travelling fans, theres much more scope for minibus/coach awaydays when it's only eg 90 minutes on a bus rather than 7 hours.
I cant see any possible reason we would've asked to stay in the North
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Post by Undertaker on May 1, 2015 22:38:32 GMT
Living as I do in Hampshire I would love it if City came south although it's not really any of my business.
re the artificial pitch I see Bromley have just announced they are abandoning their plan to install one as it's not accepted in the National division.
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Post by ChrisB on May 2, 2015 8:36:57 GMT
I'd just spotted as well that the Conference have changed their position YET AGAIN on 3G pitches and now won't be allowing them at Step 1 for next season. So Bromley (Conference South champs) have put their plans on hold...I wonder what City, Maidenhead, Eastbourne and Sutton will do now? How can a League have different rules for its two/three divisions covering the type of pitch they want their football played on?!! Being of a 'certain age' and having grown up with football on grass I, unsurprisingly, prefer football on grass, but surely with the huge steps forward made in artificial pitches (yes, I remember watching football on Luton's plastic pitch), it's better for all concerned to play on a modern weather-proof (almost) pitch than to have to fight their way over the sand/mud that we sometimes see?
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Post by Padz on May 4, 2015 16:48:53 GMT
Truro beat St Neots 1-0
Slightly annoying but still 1 club to shift North to South, hopefully they use sense and its us who move, stupidity would be Lowestoft moving ahead of us
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Post by ChrisB on May 4, 2015 18:52:28 GMT
Well, it would be nice to think that some sense prevails, but I'll not be in the least bit surprised to see them shift Lowestoft South! But with the North's Cumbrian representatives gone from the division, the travelling has got a little easier. Probably easier than a trip to Truro!
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